interview1

Audio-opname 2019-09-13 11-31-05.wav
00:00:07

Speaker 1: I. Mean. Daniel. How. Was the homework done. So by that and I do want nothing for.
00:00:22

Speaker 1: It. It's totally up to future.
00:00:25

Speaker 1: I do have a lighter. Okay. Thank you.
00:00:32

Speaker 1: Oh it's a nice place to be English. It's.
00:00:40

Speaker 1: OK. So violins recording. Yeah. Oh yeah. Give me one more. One think I let them just ALREADY PUT IT RIGHT HERE. YOU KNOW. IT'S. I don't get it. Okay. No tobacco.
00:00:59

Speaker 1: Okay. Okay. Well I think I like your ex and it's kind of interesting in the sense that it's also a form of violence right. Yeah. Accident you had in the mountains don't you see it as violent. Not not necessarily violence but if you. Like physical pain you feel. Yeah. Violence is a pleasure. Yeah. No. I mean by accident it's still over there.
00:01:34

Speaker 1: What. What is the accident. Was the president an accident. Everything. Accident.
00:01:41

Speaker 1: We just tried to make meaning out of it. When I get this physical pain up on myself I do believe.
00:01:49

Speaker 1: That it's my own fault. I think every every present moment is my own responsibility. I'm doing physical violence for myself. Yeah. Yeah. And I refer to.
00:02:03

Speaker 1: 30s forces as the devil or something like that.
00:02:07

Speaker 1: The devil you know. He made me fall but he gave me one extra chance to live. I don't see it like that. Yeah. Yeah I do. But then in a way I am that devil. Because we just make these meaning.
00:02:22

Speaker 2: Out of just. Nothing.
00:02:29

Speaker 1: Okay. But more general violence and recorded recording. They are separated. Yeah we have reporting on violence. What do you think is recording. Just archiving. Pictures.
00:02:45

Speaker 1: Recordings like this. Yeah. Music is very formal like institutional life. Yeah. Yeah I think yeah. Recording is also like. Scars. Yeah. I. Think things you remember. They were recording into more as just as seeing as feeling.
00:03:07

Speaker 1: Forced to record yourself thinking you stored in your brain. I think everything is a recording of the past. Everything. By being in the present is already recording.
00:03:22

Speaker 1: This recording it have. Recording myself.
00:03:27

Speaker 1: Yeah some lessons. Yeah. Our actions. Also recordings so there could be recordings of.
00:03:37

Speaker 1: But I do think there's a distinction. There's like there's a natural recording just the present moment there's a recording but there's also this hanging in the past that you would not look to put your mind in the present in your mind in the past. So you're not really done. Is that someone's recording or is that. More.
00:03:57

Speaker 1: Or less like a recording like this like we're recording the audio. Not you going to listen to this. And. At that moment we're not going to present in the past. Yeah. Oh let's watch two lectures also. In a way.
00:04:17

Speaker 1: OK. I don't know. We also built these houses on record and we're also looking at the past. I don't know. Like yesterday in a class you said something about like filming the interview.
00:04:30

Speaker 1: I did. It looked like you really didn't really want to. So then I went in yesterday in class when we were filming the interview. You almost said it almost felt like you didn't want to interview it because like you said there would be sort of. Staying too much in the past and not because of the filming. But yeah I didn't mean that. I don't like being recorded. Yeah yeah yeah. What was your point. I would. I would. Be. So you don't take any pictures or no I never left.
00:05:15

Speaker 1: I went for three months. I mean on a holiday I've got a pretty picture. What. What was that.
00:05:28

Speaker 1: Why would you take a picture. Well. I didn't like pictures then with myself. But um. Like. I know sometimes something is visually interesting. Then I take a picture.
00:05:48

Speaker 1: For myself as a reference but also as a sort of a visual artist like that I can look back to it. But yeah I have the same feeling that like when I'm with friends or something I don't take yourself your photo with. That sort of stuff.
00:06:09

Speaker 1: It's difficult. I think it's I don't know how many minutes it go. OK. Well it's corny. Oh it's only six minutes. OK.
00:06:18

Speaker 1: I think most people report for the wrong reasons. Which is taking pictures just to show off on Instagram. Yeah. Yeah. I go to a place not to enjoy it as a show. I just like.
00:06:36

Speaker 1: I know I shouldn't be but sometimes I get jealous. You know on Instagram and so we because of course I grew up in this age so it's hard not to be. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Of course I'm influenced by it but I always say to myself when I see pictures like that which seem so happy. I say to myself like if if the person was that happy as in the picture he or she wouldn't have.
00:07:00

Speaker 1: Taken the picture. But I think like that you know all always conference to be in some sense like OK I'm feeling enough you know my life is fun and sort of because I'm not taking pictures or the.
00:07:19

Speaker 1: OK. So yeah before you have to have too much. Yeah yeah. What do you think so far about the feel of this practice. I don't know.
00:07:28

Speaker 1: Because I missed some class. Of course if I'm thinking of recording and violence like that's the main theme of this. Practice. It's definitely a need for recording. But because we didn't really come to a conclusion. Mm hmm. Is there a need for recording like this on audio.
00:07:47

Speaker 1: I don't know. You know I think it's a bit too much. I'd like I'd also be temporary YouTube performance in the streets and then it's just gone. You don't record it it's just it was only that in the moment and after. It's not down anymore. That's.
00:08:07

Speaker 1: Fear and of course. That's the beauty of. Those acts. And it's already a recording also because for the people who experience it they will have it in their minds and they will.
00:08:18

Speaker 1: Bring it on. But I'm also a movie lover.
00:08:21

Speaker 1: So you know loving movies. You know I love movies too much.
00:08:28

Speaker 1: And of course that's a different way of recording because it is recording something that isn't always there you know. So like a story in your mind or something that happened that is like but it's different it's in that sense I'm I'm glad we can record stuff. Yeah.
00:08:49

Speaker 1: Are too much right now. It's a reverse recording is essential. Like so beautiful and the Bible is recording for instance or really good literature some amazing things you have. Some movies are really good. But now everyone is making good on his writing. And they're kind of forgetting the reason why they are doing that. That's right.
00:09:12

Speaker 1: And now also you have to with qualities you have to record that and that recording everything like it's it's normal to record something. I think it shouldn't be recorded. If something is really special you know something is really this. People have to see this. Then you should report it.
00:09:28

Speaker 1: I think we really put passion into it. It's really. Important.
00:09:35

Speaker 1: I don't think everything should be recording like this is a normal conversation for me to be there and I don't think it has to be recorded. And if we really come up with something really amazing then we can let that thing go.
00:09:49

Speaker 1: Through. So I'll stop the no violence. I violence. Yeah.
00:09:53

Speaker 1: Let's just get to the violence part because that's the main theme of this practice.
00:09:59

Speaker 1: And I like the theme much more.
00:10:00

Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Yeah. Okay. Now let's focus for now violence. Yes. Yes. So. Yeah.
00:10:10

Speaker 1: Any thoughts so far. Yeah well there's violence. It's a broad term I think personally violence. People think through negative about it. Oh violence. Violence is bad. I don't believe in that.
00:10:26

Speaker 1: I think violence is essential to the human experience.
00:10:30

Speaker 1: What sort of violence are you. Hey my friend. Yeah. As well as like physical fighting or I think fighting sometimes is necessary.
00:10:43

Speaker 1: Of course you don't want it to be. Yeah. And of course in a utopia perhaps maybe there's not no physical physical violence but sometimes you have to be able to fight in some situations. Yeah. But then it's also the fault of the situation like like you said it would be better if there if it wasn't necessary.
00:11:09

Speaker 1: But so what are you going to do.
00:11:12

Speaker 1: Deny the fact that these situations still exist and still exist that there's nothing you will do about it in your lifetime. They will still exist. Ok so then how would you sort of.
00:11:24

Speaker 1: Want to appreciate violence like it. And what sort of way would you want to talk about violence. Which is sort of fair. Like also the positive side. The conversation we had yesterday of course was more about standing up for yourself. Sort of. Or not only taking control but sort of.
00:11:57

Speaker 1: Take control of yourself at least. And. I.
00:12:04

Speaker 1: Do too see that as sort of a violence or a violent attitude. Yeah. But there is also love in it. You know.
00:12:14

Speaker 1: It's not just pushing people I know but also to yourself. I think you have to be really. You have to be able to be violent towards yourself.
00:12:23

Speaker 1: In a good way. Honest I think maybe that's a better word or not. Yeah.
00:12:29

Speaker 1: Honest. So what do you mean by being violent towards herself.
00:12:42

Speaker 1: Life is always a form of change and a form of overcoming yourself. It's basically like in the present moment the always overcoming yourself. For that you have to be violent just to be able to. Deny who you were yesterday to become someone else. You want to be today. So you have to be violent towards the ideas you have in your mind. You have to be violent towards. How you think and. How you feel.
00:13:11

Speaker 1: You have to be able to deny those things.
00:13:16

Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm making sense. Yeah. No. No. It makes sense but I find it interesting that you call that violence.
00:13:23

Speaker 1: Like sort of letting go of the past. Being in the now not recording so no way that that's sort of what I hear. Like no recording is where you call violence almost. Like throw stuff away. Yeah. Throwing principles away too. In order to get like a higher level of.
00:13:44

Speaker 1: Yeah yeah but the more principles are always around since we are born we grow up we always got to hear. Thou shalt. Not do that. Yeah I do this I should do that. You know.
00:13:57

Speaker 1: All these. You should do you should do that you should do this. And the whole society they abide by these principles. But if you don't if you really want to and just feel the present and feel your emotions and do what you think is right you have to say fuck you to this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that takes a lot of. Violence because it's really difficult.
00:14:23

Speaker 1: Yeah. Not only find the vigil just power Oh yeah. The. Most power. I mean it's. You for many people you live by these principles for most of your life. And then you have to deny most of your life and get good denied all the opinions of all those some of.
00:14:45

Speaker 1: The people who go to your parents. Everyone.
00:14:52

Speaker 1: I think I agree with. In that sense. Yeah. Of course. But then of course there's also negative aspects of violence. Yeah. I think.
00:15:06

Speaker 1: It's not so much not lost in the world. I never feel negative findings. I feel really safe in the Netherlands. Yeah. I story line. You're also a big. You're also a big guy. Yeah. And you know maybe you should. Everyone should you know be able if you are able to be violent. What is important is that how you feel. I think it's important to be able to be fighting. To be able to.
00:15:39

Speaker 1: Feel being allowed to be yourself. I feel you have it's something different than. What I was trying to say because I was trying to say like of course you feel more safe and feel less of the negative violence. Because I don't think.
00:15:56

Speaker 1: People would easily arrest you for stuff. But of course if you're smaller if and I hate to say it but also if you're a woman then it's different. Women can fight as they can and they are doing it. Which is awesome but still men are some men. Some men. Are easily. Probably more. Are quicker to go up to a woman and being annoying than.
00:16:29

Speaker 1: Go up to a man and I don't. Yeah. In a physical sense maybe. Death. In a psychological sense it's not a way around that thing.
00:16:36

Speaker 1: Okay okay that's true. I have many violent experiences of being women being violent towards me. Because they know they got away with everything. They can punch me they can abuse me and they got away with it because they are a woman and they abuse that power and that is also violence abusing your power. Of course. But now we had a. Sensitive subject.
00:16:58

Speaker 1: Because people don't like to hear these things.
00:17:01

Speaker 1: Now with uh I'll go get where we'll work. Were there many women. Who. Could find me. Yeah. In a physical way. Both probably.
00:17:15

Speaker 1: Calling the police on me for no reason. Stuff like this. Yeah. Yeah. You know they get away with it. Because. They. Uh.
00:17:34

Speaker 1: But it's okay. I don't mind people trying to be violent towards me. No really. No.
00:17:41

Speaker 1: I want people to try try to hurt me. Try to challenge my mind. I think my mind is strong enough. To bounce back. Your violence and not be bothered by it. So try to ask me. Yeah and I will. I will challenge myself to be strong enough to withstand it. Okay. That's like amazing that you sort of.
00:18:02

Speaker 1: See it as a challenge and I'm stronger. But yeah. Aren't you angry at these people as well. Like why are you like this but why do you on this film. Yeah because why the fuck would a toothache you know if they have no reason. You're. Not a good reason.
00:18:22

Speaker 1: Yeah I've had experience people being too violent towards me which is like really unacceptable by any standard.
00:18:30

Speaker 1: But what am I what I mean I for a long time I was in my mind like thinking about this being angry about it. But.
00:18:37

Speaker 1: That's not how you should deal with these things I think. Well. For yourself.
00:18:42

Speaker 1: No. But if if everyone. Would do it like that it's sort of like letting it go letting you go. Then insist society would never change. I think we would be a lot more violent society if it's sort of OK to do that.
00:19:01

Speaker 1: It doesn't mean it's okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's just how you deal with it.
00:19:17

Speaker 1: I'm not trying to make you angry at all.
00:19:24

Speaker 1: It's unrealistic that people are just violent for no reason. It's not. It's not like that. And sometimes people are violent for the wrong reasons and you will hate them.
00:19:34

Speaker 1: But yeah okay. They should be. Go to jail or whatever. Right. Sure. But it's not like it happens all the time. And. Also for women. Sure. Every woman has bad experience with men. But it's not like it's happening constantly. It's happening all the time. Really.
00:19:57

Speaker 1: No. Let's be honest.
00:20:00

Speaker 1: You know let's be honest I mean we all have a good western world. We are so yeah we have it so good. It's almost like a utopia. Come on it's so great. We are so rich and we're so safe. Yes. That's right. That's right. People should not complain too much when we're doing projects because of projects like this. People should not complain too much. They're not the only look on the negative side.
00:20:28

Speaker 1: Okay. That's very true. I think people do complain too much and in the way they complain they only make things worse. Like they only defied people with being only negative. Which is a shame. But but that doesn't mean there aren't problems. We need to address you know that doesn't mean the violence that is there only if it's no and then it's still a problem.
00:20:54

Speaker 1: It's like what you're saying. They create more problems than that. This is like most of this anti-racist activists now are most racist. They are more racist than ordinary people. I mean they are creating more problems.
00:21:10

Speaker 1: Of people that fight for equality. People are not equal. You know I don't think that's a good thing. Fairness. If. Substance. But. With. Violence.
00:21:38

Speaker 1: I think instead of it being only negative and sure it is negative in many ways. You know in many parts of the world it's really harsh to live in. Right. Of course. Now in the western. And here I think violence. I think we need a little bit more violence. Yeah. There should be more of your level of violence. Yeah yeah.
00:22:02

Speaker 1: And stop complaining so much. Because if you are able to be more violent you stop complaining or somebody they should everyone be able to fight or something politically more. Yeah. You shouldn't have to fight which you should be able to stand up for yourself.
00:22:14

Speaker 1: Yeah of course. But that's something different. And I think that. OK. So even if I like. Because I started kickboxing lessons a few months ago I know also to be like a bit more fire. Yeah. And I love it because I feel more like I said confident. Yeah. And it's amazing. But on the other hand I also know if I get into like a fight or in a situation if there are two or three guys even if there's one guy it was just much stronger to me because that's throwing a tantrum like you know even if I am able to fight I'm I'm done.
00:22:54

Speaker 1: Because it's also like sort of accepting for me. OK. So in one of the when I started kickboxing The first lesson I was with people who were also just beginning.
00:23:04

Speaker 1: So it was a bit of punching but not that much. And then later on I was putting up with this strong German guy. Yeah.
00:23:14

Speaker 1: Music I'm gonna punch you or I'm gonna kick you. Just stay strong. And I was like OK. That's the sort of saying start kick me. I literally flew like across the room like back.
00:23:28

Speaker 1: And it was fine. Like I didn't it didn't hurt. It was just physical force. And then I realized like ok even if I'm doing this right now. People are fucking like there are forces I can't. You know. Physically fight against which are just stronger and I mean is that something. Bad. No it was a huge lesson for me to sort of realize that but it's also yeah. Even if you are physically able to sort of stand up for yourself there's always like. More challenges that you can't handle if you're of course it doesn't happen often. It doesn't. Yeah.
00:24:06

Speaker 1: If you want to make money there will always be someone that's Richard and that doesn't mean that you should deny it. I don't want to get either. Sort of not physically without running out of money.
00:24:22

Speaker 1: But I should have some money. Yeah. And I should have some ability to stand up for myself.
00:24:28

Speaker 1: Yeah of course. You have to be. I think that's your main point you have to sort of to be mature. To be.
00:24:35

Speaker 1: Autonomous to be violent. Yeah.
00:24:40

Speaker 1: Yeah. My only remaining question is. Like you said in an utopia.
00:24:47

Speaker 1: We wouldn't be violent maybe maybe maybe it also wrong thinking really. That's something we think now but maybe violence is a good thing.
00:24:56

Speaker 1: Now we're gonna but maybe because what is most important for life on earth is to overcome yourself.
00:25:04

Speaker 1: And it's basically evolution I think survival of the fittest and that can mean many different things. But violence is a part of that. Being able and not now we have a lot of different violence but also economical violence.
00:25:19

Speaker 1: And maybe that's a good thing. You know that some people are way richer than other people. They are on top. You know they are the alpha male so doesn't Yeah. Maybe that's a good thing that. We have these.
00:25:30

Speaker 1: Violent forces and not Marxist world where everyone is the same and everyone everyone gets to fuck everyone and everyone gets to have babies with everyone.
00:25:40

Speaker 1: Yeah. It doesn't matter you are you are someone else is you know we're just making it like that the government is gonna decide you are gonna be children you know. So Ben it's really easy.
00:25:53

Speaker 1: But you know what I mean. You know I think there should be like dividing people should be divided.
00:25:58

Speaker 1: Because people are not equal and they are not equal but there's 8 or so like current historian of Berkman I know if you heard okay. He's also like this. It's. Like if the elite like you say your or you talk about if they sort of.
00:26:19

Speaker 1: Stop doing they say like OK we've had enough then there's not much of a problem. But if like the new workers and the. People on the lower. Like. Ladder of society. Stop then we have a huge problem. You know these streets wouldn't be here.
00:26:35

Speaker 1: You know this is some wrong thinking I think because there's not this elite and the working class. It's not like black and white in the West I'm black and white right or wrong. Everyone who is born gets an equal opportunity to become rich. It doesn't matter if your parents are rich or poor that's in a western society. That's how they get it. So everyone is equal at the start. You're equal. And then just survival of the fittest. Does it matter if your parents have medication or not. Does it matter if your parents are rich or not. Depends can be poor. No they don't have an education but you go to school and you have a good education. But the problem is of course they have an opportunity to get rich.
00:27:11

Speaker 1: But not in what I do know not in animation.
00:27:14

Speaker 1: That's your choice. Yeah it is. So you're choosing to be heavy on your core competency. It's going to be on a different level.
00:27:23

Speaker 1: You know you're to other people are deciding where the money is. Oh and that's sort of the problem.
00:27:31

Speaker 1: But it's a choice. For me personally I don't think money makes you on top of the offer. No no I think that I think. I have seen many. Homeless people that have.
00:27:44

Speaker 1: The most beautiful part. No.
00:27:47

Speaker 1: No no really. They are the most beautiful people and they have. Beautiful children and everything they have perfect life. Even though they don't have money. They. Are still. Reproducing. The best offspring. That is most.
00:28:03

Speaker 1: Competent.
00:28:04

Speaker 1: Yeah. So you don't need to have money and now you're choosing animation. But you know you're just fighting on a different level. But you're still fighting for your evolutionary.
00:28:17

Speaker 1: Yeah I know. I see it like that evolution and you don't see it like that but it is like that.
00:28:22

Speaker 1: I think eventually you just want to have children with a good woman and you want to you want to take care of your children. You want to create a perfect world for your children and for other people and for other people's children. You have to be violent to a lot of people. How do you fight for yourself.
00:28:44

Speaker 1: Oh of course I have to be able to fight for myself but I also sometimes they take pride in not being violent and in like of course because you always can grab what you want you know but sometimes I'm like okay I'm letting this go. I don't need it. And then I see people rushing towards it and it's. Like. I'm sort of letting it go you know. Or. Also like you save if people are violent towards me and sometimes they get okay again and get violent now.
00:29:19

Speaker 1: Which I sometimes do but I'm also like Okay just say your thing. Let your problem loose on me and I'll take it. And you know. It's still your problem. I just want to say I just.